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KUC VS Legolash2o Update Retriever?


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Used KUC today for the first time and when I mounted an untouched Win 7 x86 source to the offline folder and started up KUC, it found 357 updates so I used the DISM script KUC generated and slipstream the updates into the Offline source and did a test load on my Asus machine and 15 Updates appeared still in MSU. I then did a test load with a untouched source with NO updates as in untouched and ran Legolash2o Update Retriever in the Win ToolKit and it found 127 updates so I downloaded and slipstream the 127 updates and did another test load and there was only 4 updates in MSU which is OK but my question is why would KUC find 357 plus updates and Update Retriever find 127? Why would you use 357 updates that take awhile to slipstream compared to 127 and shorter slipstream times with lesser Updates in MSU?

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The reason why KUC has so many more updates is that all updates are included even if your computer may not need it in its current form. For instance, there are twelve updates for IIS. By default, that does not come installed on most systems. Only if you *specifically* select it to install will you get IIS. KUC includes *all* updates regardless of the option is installed. If you had no options installed (you removed all) before going to windows update, then you would get less updates with all options installed from a freshly installed non-updated source. Likely, those updates also have the non-common updates you would not normally get unless you had a certain problem.

Edited by crashfly
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I think crashfly meant that KUC identifies more updates (357) than Win Toolkit (127), for the reason that crashfly explained, and laddanator's experience bears that out.

Komm has explained that he hated enabling an optional feature post-install, such as IIS, only to find out that he had to then spend time downloading the required updates for the option before he could begin using the optional feature he just enabled. So he decided that he would set it up so that he could download and "install" all available updates for his system at the beginning, whether they were actually needed at that time or not.. They wouldn't all actually get installed or take up any extra CPU cycles or system resources unless and until the appropriate optional feature was enabled and installed. Until needed they would just be "pending", just taking up disc space, which was cheap and plentiful, ready to be used if necessary. I guess Komm must have been a Boy Scout and taken the "Be Prepared" motto to heart. I believe that you can select various updates, like for IIS, and not "install" those if you know you will never use that feature. Komm also includes all "Request Only" updates that he has been made aware of as crashfly also mentioned. SoLoR started this practice, and McRip (where Win Toolkit currently gets it's list of updates from) continued it as well, and Komm also continued the practice. Including the Request Only updates for all the various features available for Win7 means that Komm's list of available updates is that much larger than that currently used by Win Toolkit.

EDIT:

If you want to read the whole story and history, and have a lot of time on your hands, Google "SoLoR McRip Komm", without the quotes ("), and you should find a link to a thread on another forum that has had an extremely active discussion going on for well over 2 years with over 6326 posts in that one thread. burfadell is another active contributor there of Win 7 update scripts and tools. If you go there I'm sure you will see many familiar names.

Hopefully this explains the "Why?" you asked, laddanator.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt
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I think crashfly meant that KUC identifies more updates (357) than Win Toolkit (127), for the reason that crashfly explained, and laddanator's experience bears that out.

Yes, I read incorrectly. I have corrected it in my original post.

What needs to be taken away from this is you would only have to download what updates were not included. For many people, it may not matter that there are 300+ updates installed, as long as WindowsUpdate does not complain. If you are a "completest", by all means, use the more complete updates. If you want just the "majority" to get it done, go with 127. In part, I would be in the first group, but then I do not want to waste the time when the second group will 'get it done' for me.

Edited by crashfly
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Thanks guys for all the info. So many tricks out now for Windows 7 and 8 already that I have only began to scratch the surface. The KUC thing seems to have been out for awhile but I am just learning of it from a another post by ricktendo64.

ricktendo64, does the person who develop KUC, I guess Komm. Does the updates this tool downloads come from a server on his end or from windows updates? Would that be the reason the newest updates from the last month or so is still showing up in MSU?

The reason why KUC has so many more updates is that all updates are included even if your computer may not need it in its current form. For instance, there are twelve updates for IIS. By default, that does not come installed on most systems. Only if you *specifically* select it to install will you get IIS. KUC includes *all* updates regardless of the option is installed. If you had no options installed (you removed all) before going to windows update, then you would get less updates with all options installed from a freshly installed non-updated source. Likely, those updates also have the non-common updates you would not normally get unless you had a certain problem.

Makes sense to me crashfly, just the 127 updates slipstream a ton faster and my time on the weekends is limited but I didn't want to use 127 vs 350 plus if it was going to damage the OS or starting acting up down the road. I don't mind a few updates showing up in MSU. Just not sure how KUC keeps the updates up. Manually or by Windows Update?

If you want to read the whole story and history, and have a lot of time on your hands, Google "SoLoR McRip Komm", without the quotes ("), and you should find a link to a thread on another forum that has had an extremely active discussion going on for well over 2 years with over 6326 posts in that one thread. burfadell is another active contributor there of Win 7 update scripts and tools. If you go there I'm sure you will see many familiar names.

Hopefully this explains the "Why?" you asked, laddanator

Thanks, .bphlpt. I will read up on some of this. Your have been helpful as usual!

I have been doing this the "hard way" since Vista and 7 came out. I have 300 plus updates that I downloaded one by one from MSUC over the years and have always slipstream 300 plus. KUC only showed I was missing 7 updates when it scan my years of downloads. I always had to write down which one that new updat supersede and it took me a week! So glad to see this KUC and Update Retriever!!

So glad to have a helpful bunch of smart folks to get answers from too! Thanks again!

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ricktendo64, does the person who develop KUC, I guess Komm. Does the updates this tool downloads come from a server on his end or from windows updates? Would that be the reason the newest updates from the last month or so is still showing up in MSU?

I'm sure Rick knows better than I, but I think the point is not where the actual updates come from, which I think is directly from MS, but where the database of which updates replace which other update etc comes from and is maintained along with the KUC tool itself. That database and the KUC tool that utilizes it was created by and is maintained by Komm, with help and input by all the folks in the thread I mentioned, among others. This is both good and bad. Good, because you have a lot of people looking at this and crosschecking his results, independently testing on different equipment and circumstances etc. Besides, you know that MU/WU stuffs up now and then, so this will bypass that problem. Also, the request only updates will not be listed on MU/WU. Bad, because there is obviously a lag from when something is released by MS and it is verified and added to the database and/or KUC. I think this is "the reason the newest updates from the last month or so is still showing up in MSU". He is only one guy after all. Another problem is that he could decide to take a break, such as SoLoR has done. That's why it's also good that McRip is doing his thing independently, but he is also only one guy. Leoglash20 is also only one guy. All of these guys need and deserve all the help and support we all can give them if we hope to continue to be able to utilize their services. If not, we'll all be left with only MS to turn to, and you've seen what they've done with Metro/Modern/Nameless Piece of Crap or whatever they call it these days. LOL Sorry, I couldn't help myself, but I didn't mean to start a flame war, so just ignore that last bit. :)

Cheers and Regards

EDIT:

I Hope that eventually Lego will figure out a way to include the option to utilize KUC directly from Win Toolkit, as an option to McRip's database. I think this request has already been made.

Edited by bphlpt
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Also, the request only updates will not be listed on MU/WU. Bad, because there is obviously a lag from when something is released by MS and it is verified and added to the database and/or KUC. I think this is "the reason the newest updates from the last month or so is still showing up in MSU". He is only one guy after all. Another problem is that he could decide to take a break, such as SoLoR has done. That's why it's also good that McRip is doing his thing independently, but he is also only one guy. Leoglash20 is also only one guy. All of these guys need and deserve all the help and support we all can give them if we hope to continue to be able to utilize their services.

I understand and know its allot of work. Not complaining at all (not that you said I was) was just wondering how KUC finds the newest updates. I have the highest respect for all the guys that make us the tools to make our life easier. I am just really digging the Update Retriever tool! :prop:

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You dont want updates to show up check the satisfy WU option and use the cmd that KUC creates to install/integrate your updates

Miss this, sorry. What does that mean if the updates don't show up. Does that mean you can't update the system with the updates or does it just hide the updates and they install automatically?

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Also use the KUC install scritps (update.cmd), it will install the GDR branch of hotfixes that need it to satisfy WU

I will give this a try, Thanks, ricktendo64

EDIT: I need to read up on KUC. The update.cmd isn't doing anything. I guess I did something wrong? What I mean it gives me a message about not finding updates or something.

Update: OK read up on some info and got it working now

Edited by Legolash2o
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  • 4 weeks later...

That tool does its job as described.

Say you have installed Windows 7 Professional SP1 than visit Windows Updates to get the latest post SP1 released updates installed too.

Windows keeps a copy of every update installed via WU. That tool grabs them from the folder so you can use them later as you want.

Update individualy or integrate them in WIM of Windows 7 Professional SP1.

That's useful if you build the disc for that speciffic computer as it downloaods only the updates for that specific configuration.

Hope thats clear now.

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@david8x8 :: Heres another great descriotion of the the update retreiver tool as given to me by legolash20 from another post. :)

1. Windows Update Tab

Win Toolkit doesn't work with the Windows Update feature itself. When you download an update via Windows Update, the information and http link of each update gets stored in 'C:\\Windows\\WindowsUpdate.log'. Win Toolkit then simply scans each line in that text file search for anything with HTTP and .MSU and then simply adds it to the list for you to download. It doesn't contain information such as critical, important, optional, etc... as I don't think that information is stored within that same log file.

2. CAB Tab

When you download something via Windows Update, Microsoft stores that update in cab format in 'C:\\Windows\\SoftwareDistribution\\Downloads\\' and Win Toolkit just offers you the option to copy the to a custom folder so you can integrate them.

Yes it's fine to just integrate them without worrying about the order. If a user has reported that an update requires a prerequisites, then it will get added to a group called 'Priority' within the Update tab.

For example if you integrate IE9 then Win Toolkit will integrate IE9 before it even looks at any IE9 updates you have also added.

Anything else? Sorry if i've missed out anything. I'm sort of rushing as I have to go to University soon :D

Edited by dotfusion
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