2mg Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) Hello, mind if I ask for some directions? 1.) Should I use Alphawaves' Downloader or external Hotfix Downloader (which one is safer/updated)? 2.) Are any of the "Additional" updates worth installing? 3.) I just need to add .exe under "Silent installers" to I integrate Ricktendo's [sLIM] .net Framework 4.5.2? 4.) Same question for DirectX 9.0c Offline Installer? Edited May 20, 2014 by 2mg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbodi1406 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) 1) Both use the same Updates Lists 2) _IE11, and _NotAllowedOffline (after installing the system) Edited May 20, 2014 by abbodi1406 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mg Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 1) Both use the same Updates Lists 2) _IE11, and _NotAllowedOffline (after installing the system) Might I ask how to download only post-SP1 hotfixes? I just reinstalled Windows and there were a total of ~150 updates, while the Hotfix Downloaders in WinToolkit download about 500... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktendo Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Microsoft only pushes security related fixes on Window Update, if you want fixes for non security related stuff, you will have to google your problem/bug and you will get a KB article describing your issue and a "hotfix" to resolve it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mg Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Microsoft only pushes security related fixes on Window Update, if you want fixes for non security related stuff, you will have to google your problem/bug and you will get a KB article describing your issue and a "hotfix" to resolve it Wait, I am confused now. Let me start over again please. I got Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 U (Refresh) from Digital River, and I installed it.After that, I installed every single update Windows Update offered - except language packs. This includes critical, recommended and optional updates, I got all of them. Even Internet Explorer 11 (whereas WinToolkit's downloaders downloads deprecated IE9 and IE10 but it doesn't treat them as deprecated). Here is a pic, there are no other updates offered after these 169: So, I am interested what else WinToolkit downloads, and is there a way to only get things post-SP1, since it offers 591 updates? PS: updates are .msu, however the WinToolkit downloaders offer and .exe named "WindowsUpdateAgent30-x64" which I don't know what to do with... Thank you for taking your time to help me. Edited May 21, 2014 by 2mg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mg Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Microsoft only pushes security related fixes on Window Update, if you want fixes for non security related stuff, you will have to google your problem/bug and you will get a KB article describing your issue and a "hotfix" to resolve it Wait, I am confused now. Let me start over again please. I got Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 U (Refresh) from Digital River, and I installed it.After that, I installed every single update Windows Update offered - except language packs. This includes critical, recommended and optional updates, I got all of them. Even Internet Explorer 11 (whereas WinToolkit's downloaders downloads deprecated IE9 and IE10 but it doesn't treat them as deprecated). Here is a pic, there are no other updates offered after these 169: So, I am interested what else WinToolkit downloads, and is there a way to only get things post-SP1, since it offers 591 updates? PS: updates are .msu, however the WinToolkit downloaders offer and .exe named "WindowsUpdateAgent30-x64" which I don't know what to do with... Thank you for taking your time to help me. To make things more confusing, I forgot to mention that I did set up to recieve updates for Windows and other products from Microsoft Update. The only thing left is Microsoft Silverlight which I don't need. Howevere, aside from WinToolkit's 2 update downloaders (offering 600 downloads, 400 without Optional/Extras), under Update Retriever I have 217 more updates to download. Plus, Windows Hotfix Downloader offers Offline and Online Windows Updates...I am really confused what is the best course of getting the RIGHT updates so I can integrate them... Edited May 21, 2014 by 2mg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bphlpt Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 1) Both use the same Updates Lists 2) _IE11, and _NotAllowedOffline (after installing the system) Might I ask how to download only post-SP1 hotfixes? I just reinstalled Windows and there were a total of ~150 updates, while the Hotfix Downloaders in WinToolkit download about 500... Best I know, both only offer post SP1 updates. I could be wrong, but I believe the difference is that the smaller number are the updates required to satisfy Windows Update, while the larger number include request only updates as well. But they are all post SP1. As to the offline vs online updates, I think the online updates are ones that cannot be applied to an offline image but must be applied to a running system, or at least at or after RunOnce. Cheers and Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mg Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) 1) Both use the same Updates Lists 2) _IE11, and _NotAllowedOffline (after installing the system) Might I ask how to download only post-SP1 hotfixes? I just reinstalled Windows and there were a total of ~150 updates, while the Hotfix Downloaders in WinToolkit download about 500... Best I know, both only offer post SP1 updates. I could be wrong, but I believe the difference is that the smaller number are the updates required to satisfy Windows Update, while the larger number include request only updates as well. But they are all post SP1. As to the offline vs online updates, I think the online updates are ones that cannot be applied to an offline image but must be applied to a running system, or at least at or after RunOnce. Cheers and Regards Well, I just downloaded all possible downloads with all possible means - WinToolkit's Alphawaves Downloader, external Windows Hotfix Downloader, offline Windows Updates, online Windows Updates, and WinToolkit's Update Retriever. I didn't use the external Windows Update Downloader. *Alphawaves' Downloader and Windows Hotfix Downloader download exactly the same stuff, except WHD considers 7 updates to be Old/SUperceded while the former one doesn't. A minor inconvenience*Then I used a program that compares for duplicates for every downloaded update and most of them were duplicates and got deleted, however, I was left with a bunch of other folders (not counting the main Windows-x64 and it's subfolder), some empty, some still containing updates that Alphawaves' and WHD didn't download, nor do they recognize them as downloaded or old/superseded. So, what course of action am I to choose? If you want I can try to export a text file for everything downloaded and a text file after deleting duplicates? Edited May 22, 2014 by 2mg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bphlpt Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Check this thread - http://www.wincert.net/forum/topic/11709-project-full-updated-2014-iso/ - I think that BrokenZer0 did about the same thing that you are trying to do. Cheers and Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mg Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) Check this thread - http://www.wincert.net/forum/topic/11709-project-full-updated-2014-iso/ - I think that BrokenZer0 did about the same thing that you are trying to do. Cheers and Regards He is trying to stuff every possible update into his iso file, that is not my intention. I'm trying just to figure out: 1.) Why can I download so many updates with above mentioned tools, which is more than 500?1a.) Why are some updates downloaded with Update Retriever/Windows Update not downloaded with WHD/Alphawaves? 2.) Why does Windows Update on a fresh Windows SP1 x64 Refresh installation let me download less than 200? 3.) How do I separate those 200 from those 500 / which ones are "real" updates that can be downloaded only with Windows Update service? Thank you for your time helping me. Edited May 22, 2014 by 2mg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bphlpt Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Read the entire thread. Yes he was trying to use all possible updates, but he did quite a bit of analysis to determine which lists are the most complete and up to date and without duplicates. What is your intention? Just to satisfy Windows Update or get all available updates? And are you building an install source just for your personal home use or are you making an install source for business use or what? 1.) Why can I download so many updates with above mentioned tools, which is more than 500?1a.) Why are some updates downloaded with Update Retriever/Windows Update not downloaded with WHD/Alphawaves?2.) Why does Windows Update on a fresh Windows SP1 x64 Refresh installation let me download less than 200?3.) How do I separate those 200 from those 500 / which ones are "real" updates that can be downloaded only with Windows Update service? 1. Yes there are that many updates available if you include the request only updates.1a. I haven't checked all of the various lists, but reasons can include: * some lists might, or might not, include updates that are obsolete* some lists might not be up to date* some lists might, or might not, include request only updates* some lists might, or might not, include updates that cannot be applied on an offline image* some lists might, or might not, include updates that only apply to optional features2&3. Windows Update does not, and cannot, download request only updates, even though the request only updates ARE "real" updates, they just might, or might not, officially apply to you at this time. Request only updates are updates, or hotfixes, that have been developed by MS to deal with specific problems and generally they have not been tested quite as extensively on as wide a variety of systems as the "regular" updates that are pushed out by Windows Update, so there is a very small possibility that they might cause an issue on your system. But that risk is extremely small and I know of no one personally that has ever had an issue if they installed those request only updates. But even regular updates have caused issues in the past so it is possible. Back when MS used to put out Service Packs, such as SP1, ALL updates issued prior to that time would be included in the SP, both regular and request only, so many folks, including me, just figured they might as well go ahead and install the request only updates when they became available, even if they did not apply to them at that time, "just in case". Others just wanted Windows Update to say they were up to date, and they thought "unnecessary" updates just added bloat and applied to issues that they were unlikely to have, so decided not to install them. It's up to you to decide what you want. If you decide that you do not want any of the request only updates, then you might find this thread useful - http://www.wincert.net/forum/topic/10811-15-mars-2014-updates-packs-gdr-windows-7-sp1/ - but I have not checked lately to see if all links are still valid or if it is up to date. You'll probably need to at least read the first page and the last couple of pages in the thread using a translation program such as Google Translate to know for sure what is going on. As a general rule, you will be better off if you decide whether you want Request only updates or not, pick ONE list that seems to be kept up the best and meets your needs, and just use that one list. Then pick up the few, if any missing updates after you have installed your system using Windows Update. Good luck! Cheers and Regards abbodi1406 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mg Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) Read the entire thread. Yes he was trying to use all possible updates, but he did quite a bit of analysis to determine which lists are the most complete and up to date and without duplicates. What is your intention? Just to satisfy Windows Update or get all available updates? And are you building an install source just for your personal home use or are you making an install source for business use or what? 1.) Why can I download so many updates with above mentioned tools, which is more than 500?1a.) Why are some updates downloaded with Update Retriever/Windows Update not downloaded with WHD/Alphawaves?2.) Why does Windows Update on a fresh Windows SP1 x64 Refresh installation let me download less than 200?3.) How do I separate those 200 from those 500 / which ones are "real" updates that can be downloaded only with Windows Update service? 1. Yes there are that many updates available if you include the request only updates.1a. I haven't checked all of the various lists, but reasons can include: * some lists might, or might not, include updates that are obsolete* some lists might not be up to date* some lists might, or might not, include request only updates* some lists might, or might not, include updates that cannot be applied on an offline image* some lists might, or might not, include updates that only apply to optional features2&3. Windows Update does not, and cannot, download request only updates, even though the request only updates ARE "real" updates, they just might, or might not, officially apply to you at this time. Request only updates are updates, or hotfixes, that have been developed by MS to deal with specific problems and generally they have not been tested quite as extensively on as wide a variety of systems as the "regular" updates that are pushed out by Windows Update, so there is a very small possibility that they might cause an issue on your system. But that risk is extremely small and I know of no one personally that has ever had an issue if they installed those request only updates. But even regular updates have caused issues in the past so it is possible. Back when MS used to put out Service Packs, such as SP1, ALL updates issued prior to that time would be included in the SP, both regular and request only, so many folks, including me, just figured they might as well go ahead and install the request only updates when they became available, even if they did not apply to them at that time, "just in case". Others just wanted Windows Update to say they were up to date, and they thought "unnecessary" updates just added bloat and applied to issues that they were unlikely to have, so decided not to install them. It's up to you to decide what you want. If you decide that you do not want any of the request only updates, then you might find this thread useful - http://www.wincert.net/forum/topic/10811-15-mars-2014-updates-packs-gdr-windows-7-sp1/ - but I have not checked lately to see if all links are still valid or if it is up to date. You'll probably need to at least read the first page and the last couple of pages in the thread using a translation program such as Google Translate to know for sure what is going on. As a general rule, you will be better off if you decide whether you want Request only updates or not, pick ONE list that seems to be kept up the best and meets your needs, and just use that one list. Then pick up the few, if any missing updates after you have installed your system using Windows Update. Good luck! Cheers and Regards Thank you very much for this detailed reply! :punk: Well, as I said, this is a clean W7 Ult SP1 x64 U installation, nothing was tampered with. So any updates I got right now is what I'd like to integrate - I see no need to integrate 300 or 555 updates. This is a typical generic vulgaris fresh Windows installation that got updates from Windows Update Service (for Windows AND for other products!). I have one more update, and that's Silverlight which I won't install. So, yes, I am one of those "I want Windows Update to say that I have everything I need" - no bloats. However, using tools from the Internet, it becomes an overload of updates, and I have no idea which to install, nor why should I need some obscure specific untested updates and how to avoid them. This is how it all looks like, every possible option to download hotfixes, please take a look at them, they are also named and have some descriptions:http://imgur.com/a/yoMUo Which one of those would you recommend to get "what you get when you use Windows Update service"? Edited May 22, 2014 by 2mg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bphlpt Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Since that is not the approach I use, and I have not had to create a new install source myself in quite awhile, I might not be the best one to give you the best advice, so hopefully someone else will jump in with their opinions. But it seems to me that you might want to try the updates from http://www.wincert.net/forum/topic/10811-15-mars-2014-updates-packs-gdr-windows-7-sp1/, and use Win Toolkit to integrate them of course, to get the "satisfy Windows Update" result. Post questions in that thread if you need help. Cheers and Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiersee Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) Hi volks Since that is not the approach I use, and I have not had to create a new install source myself in quite awhile, I might not be the best one to give you the best advice, so hopefully someone else will jump in with their opinions. But it seems to me that you might want to try the updates from http://www.wincert.net/forum/topic/10811-15-mars-2014-updates-packs-gdr-windows-7-sp1/, and use Win Toolkit to integrate them of course, to get the "satisfy Windows Update" result. Post questions in that thread if you need help. Cheers and Regards Hi 2mg, I use exactly the WindowsUpdateDownloader (WUD) with this lists for the WUD to install Win7 Pro/HP x64 and x86.The list are for french-users but the only french files are XP-Modus (if you need/want it) and the IE11: if you download the english (or wathever) files and copy in the installation folder you have all the updates satisfying WU.BTW, it's very simple to modifiy the lists to get IE11 and XP-Mode in english without downloading it separately. Regards, Thiersee P.S.: the thread is in normally french but english is accepted too. Edited May 22, 2014 by Thiersee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bphlpt Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Thanks Thiersee, That's another good solution. And this one might be another one for consideration - http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/139877-post-sp1-updates-for-windows-7-updated-13052014/Cheers and Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mg Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 I'll try all the solutions posted, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mg Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 (edited) A slight resurrection, but let me just ask this to get it clear: - what updates does WinToolkit(Alphawaves) and Windows Hotifx Downloader check and download (all or all post-sp1)? - what does Windows Hotfix Downloader offline/online "check Windows Updates" check for and download? - what does WinToolkits "Update Retriever" check for - installed updates plus what? - why does WTK "Update Retriever" show a different number of installed .cab updates versus WHD's offline "check installed Updates"? PS: I went with Windows Update Downloader, it offers approx. the same updates as I have now installed, and I can skip on optional stuff like Silverlight or Security Essentials. I'd recommend it to be the first go to program to download only the generally new and neccessary updates, and it should be included into WTK update tab along with WHD and Alphawaves Edited May 24, 2014 by 2mg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bphlpt Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 To my knowledge, all of the various update lists you have tried or have been told about only list post-SP1 updates. I don't think any of them list pre-SP1 updates. If any of them do, its news to me. So AFAIK, all == all post-SP1, they are always post SP1. Cheers and Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mg Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 To my knowledge, all of the various update lists you have tried or have been told about only list post-SP1 updates. I don't think any of them list pre-SP1 updates. If any of them do, its news to me. So AFAIK, all == all post-SP1, they are always post SP1. Cheers and Regards Well, WUD shows SP1 as a possible download. But what I really want to know is why are there so many tools that show such different results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bphlpt Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 If there are indeed any pre-SP1 updates, besides SP1 itself, available in any of the lists then I'll let someone else who is more familiar than I am with those lists confirm that. Otherwise, the only reasons I am aware of for the differences are: 1a. I haven't checked all of the various lists, but reasons can include: * some lists might, or might not, include updates that are obsolete* some lists might not be up to date* some lists might, or might not, include request only updates* some lists might, or might not, include updates that cannot be applied on an offline image* some lists might, or might not, include updates that only apply to optional featuresThat, and the fact that there is no real coordination between the various tool/list makers, which usually are individuals. Cheers and Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mg Posted May 25, 2014 Author Share Posted May 25, 2014 If there are indeed any pre-SP1 updates, besides SP1 itself, available in any of the lists then I'll let someone else who is more familiar than I am with those lists confirm that. Otherwise, the only reasons I am aware of for the differences are: 1a. I haven't checked all of the various lists, but reasons can include: * some lists might, or might not, include updates that are obsolete* some lists might not be up to date* some lists might, or might not, include request only updates* some lists might, or might not, include updates that cannot be applied on an offline image* some lists might, or might not, include updates that only apply to optional featuresThat, and the fact that there is no real coordination between the various tool/list makers, which usually are individuals. Cheers and Regards Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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